Would you mind re-posting your calibration settings for the 6500? I have tried using what is in the official review on Projectorreviews.com, but it seems like part of the text refers to a Sanyo projector, and also there seems to be two different values for color saturation in Theatre1 mode…

Thanks

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Greetings Sergio,

Actually, everything there looks right (I took a quick look), with the exception of the two different numbers for color saturation.

Mike’s numbers from his calibration, produce the -3 saturation. I do most of my watching on the Firehawk G3 screen (HC gray). I find that most typically, I run the saturation between -3 and -9, but most often, between -6 and -9. The -8 is what I put in as most typical. With a white screen surface, most people would increase the saturation, compared to the settings for an HC gray screen. Depending on your overall setup, you should find happiness somewhere in that -3 to -8 range. The difference between -3 and -8 is noticeable, but hardly drastic. -art

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Hi Scott,

yes Epson will have new firmware. It is apparently getting close to ready. However, Epson has not determined how to handle the upgrade. Last I spoke with them, they indicated two likely possibilities - something that could be downloaded by people and installed, or having people send their projectors in for the upgrade.

What I do know, is that the projector can be field upgraded, so possibility #1 is doable. The issues will tend to relate to protecting copyrights, etc. Pixelworks, and independent company that makes scaling and image processing code/software, for outboard processors, projectors and flat panel TVs designed the CFI for the 6500UB. As such, Epson Japan will have to come to an understanding with Pixelworks if they are going to let end users handle the firmware. Typical legal issues, but, they likely will determine the “final solution”.

I don’t have a timeline, but I’d be surprised if Epson didn’t put forth their solution in the next 4-8 weeks. It is definitely coming, they tell me, only the delivery method is in question. -art

O.K. you’ve been very enthusiastic about a few projectors before, but I can’t recall you being this enthusiastic before! I had an experience a few months ago when I walked into a Best Buy store and saw a Samsung LCD T.V. playing an animated feature. It stopped me dead in my tracks! I’ve seen a couple of 3D features at the IMAX, but what I was seeing from this T.V. was a 3D effect that, to me at least, was more appealing and natural than what I saw in the IMAX theatre. Apparently, its the frame interpolation feature of the Samsung T.V. that lends itself to creating an impression of massive depth, at least with some material. I am looking forward to your full review of the 6500 and your impressions concerning, in particular, the 3D appearance of the image.

Thanks.

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Greetings Grant,

Hmm, I think I posted an update right after you sent in this comment. Yes, it is the frame interpolation, and after much time studying what it was doing. Your Samsung story fits nicely with what I am finding.

That’s the problem with my “first looks” they are just that. Perhaps I should have waited the extra day or so, but then everyone has been dying to hear anything about the 6500 UB. Cie la vie!

The depth (24 fps, frame interpolation on at any setting) is definitely unnatural - un-filmlike, but very cool looking. And the motion artifacts that I describe in the 2nd look blog, are more than enough to be annoying to any enthusiast, and perhaps most people. (on the other hand, many might rank it with rainbow effect - they can see it, but don’t care. I concluded that it’s fun, at times, but you really wouldn’t want to watch a movie that way because of the jerkiness of the image. It might be great in a chase scene, but not in a relatively still one.

Thus, for now, I recommend not using it for movie viewing (assuming a 24fps source), and I have some issues on some scenes with just the 4:4 running as well., with blurring. Evan, at projector central reported related things a while back on an article about 24 fps itself (not related to frame interpolation).

I’m hoping that the frame interpolation will work much better with the source having 24fps output turned off, which is what I will try next. Since I didn’t notice any obvious issues when watching football, with a 1080i source, I suspect that not feeding 24fps is the key to getting the most out of frame interpolation.

We shall see. As noted, I will be observing the same material from my PS3 but with 24fps off on the PS3. I plan also to do side by side comparisons with the Panasonic (definitely) and Sanyo Z3000 (likely) trying various frame interpolation setups. Unfortunately, the Mitsubishi HC7000, the fourth 3LCD projector with 120 hz support, has long since gone back to Mitsubishi.

Bottom line: At worst case, I expect that the frame interpolation will be a good thing for sports and 1080i source material in general, but may not be viable for movie watching.

More likely, (I hope), by not using 24fps at all, the projector handle frame interpolation well, regardless of the source.

Stay tuned!

And happy holidays! -a

Looks like you will have your hands full for a couple of weeks.

Like Matt above I have a 135″ (1.8gain) 16×9 screen I am using with my InFocus 7210. I keep trolling looking for a 1080p replacement. If I decide to try a dip in the CIH pool I was going to try a 141 x 60 screen.

When the folks at Epson come back to work can you find out the “skinny” on the LPE (Light Power Edition) of the TW5000 (ne: 7500UB) that Epson sells ONLY in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland (for some bizarre reason). Supposedly this unit has an extra filter (either internal or external… there are several debates about that) that allows the projector to run in Dynamic Mode but still provide D65 color and correct grey-scale.

Obviously for those of us addicted to big screens… it would certainly be nice to have the LPE added to the list of choices.

Epson for years has had some very peculiar ideas about marketing… before the Home versions they used to charge those of us in the USA double for their projectors than they did the rest of the world… I am glad they finally came out with the Home version here in the US, but why they would only sell this LPE version in three countries is just plain weird!!!

Sounds like this is the winner I was looking for. Can’t wait for your review…but I might not wait that long to order it.

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Greetings Bart,

Excellent, you raise a good point. Here’s my take so far:

First, the Epson (and I can’t get any answers from them - they shut down for two weeks about 2 hours after I picked up the UB, last friday) - seems to only do creative frame interpolation, with 30/60 sources, not 24. The Epson “normally” uses 4:4 pull-down for 24fps source material. You can run it that way, or turn 4:4 off. If you turn 4:4 off, you can turn on frame interpolation (creative). There are three speeds to creative frame interpolation, but all of them seem to make a mess of smooth motion, lots of hiccups, and noticeable. Not a workable option.

I have tried watching in all three creative frame interpolation modes - the jerkiness appears often enough to be visible, and annoying. 4:4, on the other hand, works fine - no jerkiness that I have noticed relative to creative on.

I have watched 4:4 extensively, and even watched with that turned off, for several hours. The creative frame interpolation definitely tends to make the image more live digital video looking than with frame interpolation off, (”frame interpolation off” being whether 4:4 is turned on, or off).

I still need to do more watching to get a complete handle on 4:4 on, vs. off, but, the depth seems to be excellent in either, and there is still that live digital video impression, although less in either of those modes, than the generally unworkable creative frame interpolation for 24fps sources.

So, the creative definitely enhances that impression, but even without it, it has that feel. My daughter and I watched a bunch of the last Harry Potter movie last night, and her comment was immediately - that looks strange. She made a good point, that it looked like some of the cuts you see in special features sections of DVD’s where they show you deleted footage that was never fully finished. The problem is, I’m not sure if 4:4 was on at the time, or off, but creative frame was definitely not engaged, so we had a good image, either way.

I may well blog on this again in the next 48, before the review, as nailing down what’s happening in what modes is driving me crazy.

Bottom line: Creative definitely has that effect, but it’s still there, at least with 4:4, and maybe with both turned off.

Stay tuned! BTW, I had someone from SIM2 by this morning. He got a look at the Epson and was most impressed with the depth, etc.

Gotta run! -art

Bottom line, has LCD(the 6500ub) finally caught up to DLP regarding the depth and pop factor? I know you said it in your blog but I want to hear it again! Maybe your initial enthusiasm has died down a bit.. If that’s the case, I wonder why anyone would go DLP at this point?

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No doubt about the “pop and wow” with the Epson. If I have a question, it’s whether it is over the top. I don’t think so, but coming from watching the Panny, or even my RS1, it definitely blows away the Panny in this regard, and even the JVC.

This morning SIM2 came by and dropped off a D80E, their $9K single chip DLP. While the SIM2 guy was here, in the course of conversation (he was here for about 3.5 hours), we decided to compare the Epson with the D80E. Most interesting. Not surprisingly, the SIM2 did better on shadow detail. (The Epsons are always good, but not the best - at dark shadow detail, they do lose a little.) But the Epson was just as sharp, and definitely “out-popped” the SIM2. I have to say the SIM2 is the more natural of the two, but even the SIM2 guy (and Alberto really does know his stuff, as I learned today), was extremely impressed with it’s performance.

The short answer - yes it’s got the BenQ’s and Optoma’s beat, in this regard. In a fully darkened room, the black levels + the sharpness + whatever else, provide depth which makes these words come to mind: breathtaking, uncanny, spectacular, and perhaps the best: startling.

But, with the caveat, again, is it too much? When playing with the Epson and the SIM2, using the natural look of the SIM2 as a reference, I backed off color saturation more than a little below the settings that Mike came up with when calibrating, and it still maintained really impressive depth, but, a little less “live digital video” look than where I started. We looked at some Casino Royale and even more The Dark Knight - expecially the IMAX content.

I won’t, however, get to watch anything in my main theater until tonight though, with those changes, and some minor tweaking of the gamma.

So, a possible “over the top” condition after the new adjustments can’t be checked out until tonight, but, I fully expect the end result to be lots of pop and wow, and still spectacular depth.

The first viewings were startling. I’m sold, but some may not be. But I expect by the time I get done, I’ll have settings that should please just about everyone, even if it’s not the most “film-like” projector out there.

We shall see, but at this moment in time, for example, I, personally, from a picture only standpoint, would definitely take the Epson over, say the BenQ W20000, or anything in the Optoma line-up.

The IN83 - incredibly natural looking, will be an interesting side by side. The Epson will destroy it, in terms of black level performance, the InFocus will reveal more very dark shadow details. The IN83 has good depth, but no match for the Epson. (Though I haven’t set them up side by side yet - probably tonight.

-art

I look forward to more in depth comparisons and the review of the 6100. Thanks.