The Art of Home Theater Projectors

Home Cinema 8500UB projector – Red lines issue

Greetings all,

OK, to summarize, it’s been reported on avsforum, and probably others, that a small number of Epson 8500ub (and 9500ub?) projectors are sporting some vertical red lines and possibly other red artifacts.

I had a discussion yesterday with Epson product management.  Of course, so far, it’s only been a short time, since the first reports of this issue, but Epson assures me (so, I guess, that I can assure you), that Epson is:

1.  Aware of the issue

2.  Currently trying to nail down the cause, in order to determine the scope of the problem and to rectify it.

3. Coming up with a solution as soon as possible.

Epson, from our conversation, believes this is a problem affecting a very small percentage of owners.  From their perspective – so far – and I imagine it could change if they get a lot more reports, it is affecting very few.  As Epson indicated, and industry stats would tend to support, Epson by now has likely shipped at least a couple thousand 8500UB’s in the US, as well as perhaps an equal or greater number of the equivalent overseas models.

I do note that only 12 people (out of 31) in the AVSforum survey report a problem, which sounds like a lot, but based on previous surveys done for other problems, including Epson’s defocusing issue, and possibly the CFI, as well as older ones done relating to the BenQ PE7700 lamp issue, Panasonic vertical banding (several Panasonic models)  etc., the forums are truly bad places to try to figure out accurately how many people are affected.

I say that, because it’s the nature of forums that people who buy a projector – whether familiar with forums going in, are often likely to search them out, when they have a problem.  This tends to make the numbers higher.  After all, as of a minute ago,  if you google 8500UB, red, line;       then AVSforum’s survey page is the top search result.

Also, interesting, I’m talking with one user who not only suffered the red line problem (that’s you Bruce), but has with the replacement unit as well.

That’s strange, especially if Epson is right, and that this problem is affecting a small group (single digit) of owners.  That would tend to, though not necessarily, indicate that while a problem may lie in the Epson firmware, it’s only triggered when certain other conditions are met.  That type of problem can take longer to solve.

Bruce tells me that the problem is few and far between – he uses the projector 20-30 hours a week and it happens, I believe, about once a week.  That makes it hard to nail down what modes prevent the problem from happening, if any.

I’d like to engage a couple of other folks with the problem, to go over cables, switchers (including AV receivers), sources, etc., to see if we can find common threads and help Epson nail this problem down.

So drop me an email at reviewer@projectorreviews.com if you have a red line problem and still have the projector.  I’ll pass on everything of use, to Epson.

That brings me to the “commercial”.

Epson asked me to assure everyone, that Epson, as always, is fully focused on customer satisfaction.  That they will figure out the problem shortly, that they will come up with a fix, where needed, and everyone will “live happily ever after” (my words), with their Epson projectors.

I recall that with the de-focus problem of last year, it took several weeks from first reports until a manufacturing fix was found.  The same was true with the  issues with their first CFI firmware.

Epson does get my endorsement.  As an online dealer we did sell something in the order of 10,000 Epson projectors over a decade, over the course of the decade, they were our largest line (but we sold almost all the majors – Sanyo, Panasonic, BenQ, Optoma, Sony, Toshiba, Mitsubishi…)  My experience with them, from the dealer standpoint, and how they took care of customers with issues, was always exceptional.  It’s no wonder they have a closet full of awards for Epson customer support.

So, all I can tell you, is, so far, that if Epson is right, the problem affects a very small group.  In that case, there’s little to fear in buying a shiny new 8500UB.   And, should you be one of the unfortunate to encounter the problem, Epson will take care of you.  Among other things, remember, they have their overnight replacement program, which is about as close to “no questions asked”, as you will find.  More important, though, is that Epson really does take any such issues extremely seriously.  While other companies often take a while to debate whether there is a problem, Epson seems to sort of assume, upon hearing there is one, that it’s real, and their challenge becomes – how quickly can we make this go away, and have all our owners happy.

OK, yeah, I like Epson, we all know that.  I own a 1080UB in my Epson Ensemble HD, I also have an Epson printer (two actually, the other is an ancient MX80 (now approaching 30 years old – (great paperweight).   I worked for them ’82 – ’86, (no, there weren’t Epson projectors back then, only Epson dot matrix printers, and Epson IBM PC clones).  But, I can tell you, Epson had the same almost “anal-retentive” focus on building quality product, and providing excellent support, then, as they have today.  They are in a rut.  It just so happens that for end users, it’s a good rut.

OK, one more time.  I’m looking t hear from 2-3-4 of you who have experienced the problem.  Especially anyone who is having it frequently (every couple hours), which helps in determining all circumstances in effect when the problem occurs.

Meantime Epson will keep me apprised once the cause is determined, once a fix is readies, and how to take advantage.  If like the last couple of issues to hit Epson, response should be pretty fast, with a solution found, and hopefully implemented in the next few weeks.

It’s not likely a cable quality/length issue, as Bruce has tried with short and long cables, but, more results are needed.

Thanks!  Let’s get this problem nailed, and corrected so we can get back to the business of sorting out projector image quality.

BTW, the Epson 9500UB I have here on loan, is now pushing close to 200 hours and it does not exhibit any red lines.   -art

News And Comments

  • SaxCatz

    I wish that I could help, but I can honestly- and happily- say that I have well over 200 hours on my 8500UB with no instances of the “wavy red line” phenomena. If nothing else, at least I can verify that the problem is NOT universal.

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Hi SaxCatz,

      Ahh, you are not alone. I receive far more emails, than comments through my blog (a situation I’m trying to change. I’ve heard from about 20 others with, say 40 to 200+ hours, also with no red line (at least so far. My money is that Epson will have the fix by end of month, regardless. I sure hope they don’t disappoint me, and drag it out longer. -a

  • Jon

    Hey Art,
    I am glad you are looking into this issue, I had read about the red line problem before purchasing the 8500UB but went ahead and bought it, trusting Epson’s reputation and customer support.
    My bulb has less than 10 hours and I haven’t seen the issue yet.

    I do have a question though, the manual states to turn off the projector’s main power switch on the back after powering off/letting the bulb cool. Is this necessary?
    I doubt many setups make that button easy to turn off every time you use the projector, and wondered what your practices are.
    Would leaving it on all the time have any adverse affects?

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Hi Jon,
      That’s a silly request (to turn off the master power, in most cases. Certainly no one ceiling or mounting on a high rear shelf would do so, since they wouldn’t be able to power up with their remotes. On the other hand, Epson was probably trying to say – “hey” if it’s convenient, you might want to completely power off the unit. It will save you a watt or two at idle, and save your projector if you take a lightening strike without the proper power filtering… -art in other words, probably best intentions, misleading english.

  • Harris Stein

    Art,
    I ran into the red haloing issue with my 9500 UB. I was able to capture it on video and upload to YouTube. It occured watching Human Target tonight right after I turned the projector on. You can see in the video that the gray stones shimmer red and around 49 seconds in, the man’s face ghosts red. Here is the link and some info about my setup:

    68 hours on the lamp
    Motorola 6412 cable box sending 720p over HDMI through OPPO HDMI switch to the 9500
    The program is Human Target on FOX
    Color Mode: Cinema Night
    Brightness: 8
    Color Saturation: 6
    Skin Tone: 3
    Frame Interpolation: Off

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKOt3fTKAUg

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Thanks Harris, and congratulations, you are the first with a 9500UB to report the problem. Up until now, they were all 8500UB’s.
      -art

  • John

    Any update yet from epson about this problem yet?

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Sadly, no, I had expected to chat with them Thurs, but it never happened. At this point, that’s like last year. – I’m still feeding them info from about 8-9 people with the red line problem, that have contacted me, and they are working on it. At this point, most likely the next “word” hopefully soon, from Epson will be: “We have a fix”.

      I just sent emails to my favorite two product manager types over there, to see if they have anything to tell me. -art

  • Darryl Lowe

    Wow…that’s quite a summary Art! ;-)

  • Jon

    I just got the red wavy line problem after 16 hours on my projector.
    In one scene the clouds had red lines around them that followed the curves of the clouds.
    I turned it off then back on and was presented with a message that the “epson cinema filter” had a problem and to contact them. I called the PrivateLine support number by my PIN wasn’t recognized and talked to the regular support which had me power cycle again, and the problem is gone… for now.

  • primaz

    I have had the Epson 8500 UB since early December using it for daily TV and occasional bluray use with no problems at all. This is my second projector and using the basic tweaks provided by some of the reviews of the 8500 UB I had a picture with deep blacks that was better than my old Sanyo that was professionally tweaked! and I mounted the unit and tweaked in in one hour!

    For the sub $2500 market the Epson to me is the best deal as they have a nice $200 rebate and more importantly if you factor how long the bulb last over other close contendors like the Panny, after about one to two bulbs the Epson is far less expensive of a PJ. The blacks are very nice and I have been very happy with our 8500 UB.

  • Nick

    Art:

    I have had about 6 cases of the red wavy lines in about 300 hours. It’s a shame because the projector has great potential but this is an unacceptable fault. I hope Epson makes this right.

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Nick, they say they’ve got it figured out. As of yesterday, they didn’t seem quite ready to roll out the support, but, my guess is that they will be there, before the weekend, so givem a call. -art. btw 323 hours on the 9500UB – no red lines.

  • http://www.ebigpicture.com David Hoffman

    Art, at about 100 hours I got the wavy red problem. Looks like posterization. Drove me nuts, screwed with so many settings to try to mitigate. Until I learned at AVS to cycle the power.

    I’ll be glad to exchange when I know they’ve fixed that problem in addition to the vertical lines problem, especially since my convergence is off by a couple pixels.

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      David,

      A couple of pixels – wow, you really got a choice one. I had 3 different 8500UB or 9500UB’s over here two nights ago, for a calibration party. Besides the fact that none have exhibited red lines, (or vertical banding), none of them seemed to have misconvergence on any plane any color, even as great as a full pixel. The 9500UB I have here was probably the worst with green vertical off by just about 1 pixel and everything else really 1/2 pixel or less.

      I’d say its time to call Epson (Tuesday – they are probably closed for the long weekend). Also from the red line standpoint, as I’ve mentioned it sounded like the final procedure does not include sending your unit it, that the red lines can be handled at home… -a

  • VJ

    Art – I got the “ghosts redline” problem a couple of times with my 8500UB that I own since December. I’ve just seen it a couple of times with the unit and that too with standard DVDs. I called up Epson and they haven’t exactly been helpful, asking me to check cables, Blu Ray player, receiver etc. which I know is not the issue. I’m waiting for it to appear again so that I can capture it on camera..so that it may help resolve the problem.

    Love your blog/reviews!

    VJ

  • VJ

    Oh..Forgot to add..Shutting down and powering up the projector solved the problem when I got the issue.

  • Kevin Mac

    My 8500UB is 2 months old with 35 hours. I noticed the redish/magenta coloring on fleshtones in motion at first then on other objects. Then, the projector began to display very deep green coloring in the picture on initial boot which would fade to “normal” in about a minute. A power recycle does take care of the red/magenta shadowing or artifacts but the green screen is still with me. Epson is sending a brand new replacement next week.

  • http://myworld.ebay.com/bigmamasbucketofjunk Jeffrey M.

    Hi Art and everyone else! I am in the market for a projector. I would really REALLY prefer a 3D one however the 8500ub has that awesome contrast of 200000:1. Ok so here’s the deal.. Is there a 3D projector that looks beautiful, to where I could do my 3D movie and gaming thing, and also be able to watch a bluray movie with the family and it be crisp? If your answer is no than I guess I will just aim on getting the Epson. Any thoughts Art or anyone else?

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Hi Jeffrey M.

      Looks like you’ll have to wait, to be sure about 3D. There are a lot of possibilities, but for the most part, a 3D projector today, that will do what you want, is most unlikely. I’m about to have a discussion with the nVidia folks who are leading the charge on the PC side. However, on other fronts – all the DLP’s out there right now that are claiming 3D, are, to my knowledge, 720p projectors. Supposedly TI will have the processing needed for 3D at 1080p, this summer.

      So, for the most part, except for some proprietary 3D out there, there’s still no mass market of content.

      My guess is that no projector currently shipping will be able to do Avatar and Alice, and Dragon, in 3D. I could be wrong. It may well be that going the computer route, not stand alone DVD player, might get the job done, but I’m not betting on it. In other words, if you have a projector, and a computer with an nVidia Quadra level graphics card, you may well be able to do 3D movies down the road. Just don’t bet the farm on it.

      Most likely we’ll see a bunch of 3D ready projectors this fall. Keep an eye out for two things – HDMI 1.4 which is where the HDMI folks are putting all their 3D standards. Looks like there may be reasons why 1.3 has limitations, at least compared to 1.4.

      And Blu-ray has their standards out too. I’m just not sure if they require HDMI 1.4. I will find out.

      And of course, since all the projectors and blu-ray players out there are hdmi 1.3, which ones, if any, (especially the PS3) will be firmware upgradable – both for 3D abilities themselves, and possibly upgrade via firmware from 1.3 to 1.4.

      Sure would be great if the existing PS3 turns out to be fully upgradeable. We shall see. hope that helps.

      PS. lumens, once we start getting 3D projectors and compatible content, another big issues becomes brightness. figure with 3D, bye bye to 50% or more of your lumens? That would make today’s brightest under $10K home theater projectors become rather average to below average brightness by 2D standards. I have know idea, yet, as to how many lumens will be needed to fill my 128″ screen for 3D with glasses!

  • Ken Walker

    I’m having the same issue with mine…also mostly noticeable in fleshtones in motion, and recycling the power off and on usually fixes it. I haven’t yet contacted Epson about it, but I plan to soon. Kevin Mac, please post again and let us know if the new unit has the wavy red lines issue too. I’m not sure if the issue about the green coloring when first powered up is abnormal though. Mine does that too, but I figured it’s just warming up.

  • Kevin Mac

    The new unit is here and I’ve noticed no problems so far. The first unit didn’t actually start acting up until it had about 30 hours on it. So though it is fine now, the jury is still out. I’m hoping it’s been resolved …. we’ll see.

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Hi Kevin Mac,
      Yeah, tis the nature of this type of problem, Since it can take a long time to manifest, many won’t truly believe its fixed until people have thousands of hours on theirs.

      I’ll give Epson the benefit of the doubt, that is, that they’ve nailed it, and we’re not talking Toyota and ECM acceleration here.

      But if it does crop up again in some fixed units, then I’ll take my lumps. But should that happen, I’ll be especially all over Epson’s case if another problem crops up down the road. So far they’ve been good to their word. If this pans out, I figure that’s three issues, over several units in two years. That really is too many issues, but they’ve handled each extremely quickly and effectively.
      Oh well, other things to do. Next… -art

  • Kevin Mac

    Art:

    I chose this unit over the Sony to replace my old Sony 720p unit (it still works, I just wanted an upgrade). I am very impressed with the 8500 and plan to keep it for awhile (until I’m compelled beyond resistance to buy a 3D unit — whenever that is). The picture is outstanding and the people at Epson were very swift to send a replacement (without me even asking). What I’m not sure about is that the unit I’ve got is a “problem solved” unit. The rep with whom I spoke was aware of some “red” problems but when asked if this was a widespread issue (I had not read this thread at that time) he said he did not think so.

    Since he didn’t actually say “yes, we’ve had this issue in a few and we’ve hunted it down and killed it,” I think there is a very good chance they grabbed a brand new unit out of the crate and sent it to me — which is fine. I’m not too worried about it, if they’re as responsive to future issues as they were this one, they’ll get it done but it’s nice to have someone “monitoring” their progress.

  • OJ

    I have been having the same problem since I got my projector. I’m under 100 hours, and this only happens about once a week. I though something looked funny on flesh tones in motion, but I couldn’t really figure out what it was or how to describe it. As others have mentioned, cycling the power solved the issue every time.

    I had a breakthrough when watching a cartoon. Wife and kid didn’t notice anything, but it was driving me crazy. This was the best example of the issue that I have seen with my projector, so I decided to take some pictures before and after…

    Before reboot…

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2766/4448094767_e4d992b42a_b.jpg
    http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4448868950_f75841f817_b.jpg
    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2678/4448097073_e3e3ce474d_b.jpg

    After reboot…

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2680/4448874446_55a8b4c3ab_b.jpg
    http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4448876034_6b0023b4d9_b.jpg

  • AH

    I just purchased a 9500 and on the third or forth day, I was watching a movie and had red wavy lines on flesh toned skin show up.

    I tried changing many of the setup options to no avail.

    I am now researching the issue and have not contacted Epson yet. I guess if the issue shows up again, I will see if I can isolate it to a piece of hardware and if I believe it is the projector, contact Epson about the issue.

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Contact Epson – sorry, I overlooked your comment. Epson’s just waiting… and ready. -art

  • paul wong

    I had the same 3d looking picture (without wearing the red and green glasses), a couple of times .It usually happens when I change sources. Solved the problem by turning off the power and then restarting.Other than this slight irritation the pic is beautiful. Just watched Avatar and friends said it was better then the movie theater. Took two weeks of tweaking to get the pic spot on but now am in video Nivarna

  • John

    I just bought this projector and have only 13 hours on it. I too am having the issue where the screen is heavy green on boot, then settles into proper coloring. Is this a sign of a bigger issue that I should contact Epson about? Also, my mislaw is not a complete rectangle. I can get the bottom or top me the display to be completely straight but then the opposite side is angled. Is there a known fix for this?

  • John

    Mislaw = screen. Not sure how I screwed us that one.

  • Jay

    Have these issues with the 8500 been fixed yet?

  • Jay

    Nevermind. I just now saw the other blog indicating it was fixed.

  • George

    I just bought a new Epson 8500 this past week from Visual Apex and on my second day of viewing, I am seeing the red lines and halos.

    From what I have been reading, the correct thing to do is contact Epson vs. calling Visual Apex – right?

    Hopefully a quick replacement will take care of this issue. My initial impression of the picture (outside of the red lines issue) is otherwise quite positive. I am upgrading from a Panny AE-900 and find the 8500 to be a huge upgrade.

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Hi George,

      Hmm, yours is the first report I’ve gotten of the problem occurring since a week or two after they announced the fix. I would have thought that Epson had caught all the old units that were out in the field, especially with a major reseller like Visual Apex. Still, yes, best bet, call Epson. If you get someone unresponsive (“level 1″ support) ask for level 2 or a manager… Epson has replaced a whole lot of these, and have all the procedures in place, but it seems even so, there’s always one person left working the phone lines, who’s “last to know”… -art

      PS. Please do let me know how it all turns out. -a

  • Peter

    I understand this thread is related to the Epson model however I own a Sanyo Z700 with only 20 hours on the unit and it is displaying the same vertical red lines as described in this forum. Unfortunately after power down cycles it has not improved. I am returning it to Sanyo for inspection and will let you know what they, as a competitor have to say.

  • Kent

    Just got my 8500 today and noticed the wavy red lines right when I turned it on. Have power cycled to no avail. Contacting the company I bought it from to see how long it had been sitting in their stock room. WIll most likelyi be contacting Epson tomorrow to see what they say.

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Hi Kent, Of course we’ve been discussing by email. Please comment back to this blog, with status etc. after you call Epson… And don’t forget, should you run into someone @ Epson support who doesn’t seem to be up to speed about the whole issue, ask for a supervisor, or level 2 support. Get someone who’s “on top of things” as most should be by now. -a

  • adrian

    No red line issues on my 8500UB but with 1200H my image suddenly went dim. Tried to adjust brightness and other settings with zero success. I called Epson and they said it was the lamp. I have a feeling, from their responses to my inquiries about the 4000H life of the lamp, that maybe they put subpar lamps in certain 8500′s…just speculation. In any case they are overnighting a new lamp at no charge, and the customer service is excellent. Will post once the new lamp is installed.

  • Brian

    Currently dealing with a horizontal red line issue on a 9500UB purchased in May of 2010. The projector had 979 hours on it when the first bulb went bad, however the red line issue never existed with the first bulb that came pre-installed in the projector. Upon changint to the second bulb, a very distinguishable horizontal reddish pink line was immediately visible across my entire 100″ screen . This line covers approximately the bottom 3 inches of projection. Epson replaced the first and second bulbs under warranty which shows excellent customer service. However, I replaced the second bulb with the new ones just received from Epson and the red line is still very visible, not just barely, but very visible. It is visible 100% of the time not just occasionally. I talked to the folks at Epson today, and I was made aware by the individual I talked with that this was a known issue with the video processor and that they would of course take care of it under warranty by replacing the projector. This all made perfect sense to me as I could see no red artifacts on the bulb itself. How many total reports of 8500 and 9500 issues have their been relating to this problem, ballpark figures of course? I want to get with the vendor who sold me this projector and ensure Epson upholds their end of the deal here. I know Epson has always had pretty awesome customer service, I just want to make sure were all dealt with proper on this. Bad bulbs, red lines, I thought I was purchasing a very high quality product that I was going to be able to view for years. Hopefully that is still the case.

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Hi Brian,
      you’re just a little behind the curve, as you probably figured out. The red line problem seems to have been dealt with not long after you bought yours, via firmware. But, the problem did not affect all of the UBs (8500UB and 9500UB). So, now you should have a projector with current firmware, and if reports hold true, be “good to go.”
      The big picture looks like this.
      1. You are dealing with the company that has the best rep out there for post sales support, and you’ve seen why already. Rarely, (but sometimes) does another company jump through hoops for users. (I can only speak for Epson in the US, as overseas policies are different.)
      2. Blubs. lamp life is scary, always has been, first the “life” of a lamp, in hours, is generally meant to be how long before the lamp has lost 50% brightness, not how long to failure. Perhaps more importantly, it’s not like if you have a lamp rated 2000 hours, that 90% of the lamps are going to fail, between 1900 and 2100 hours. I’ve never been able to nail down numbers, but my guess is that one can expect 10% of lamps not even to make it to half the rated life. and probably an equal number might last more than 50% longer than rating.
      In other words there are always a significant number of lamps failing very early on. Luck of the draw mostly, That’s why most manufacturers provide at least 500 hours, and more and more, 1000 hour warranties, they know there will be a certain number of very early failures, and they need to cover those folks.
      3. Red lines – now that’s a design flaw. One of the problems with the mad rush to bring out “newer, better, less expensive” year after year, is that’s really rushing product out the door. A 12 month product cycle for a home theater projector is tough. Most business and education projectors last at least two years. Epson’s has three problems in 3 years, not a great record, but then, their products tend to push the limits a bit more in some cases.
      They had a heat related lens defocusing issue (lens would go slightly out of focus, after about 30 minutes of warm up), on the 6xxx series, which was the first models to use the current 8xxx and 9xxx cabinet. Then they had issues with their CFI, and now, red line. (Well lots of manufacturers have had issues with CFI (fast motion), and others with rough dynamic iris action.)

      4. Finally – how many people are suffering red lines? Well, today, almost no one, though I imagine it continues to show up on some of those original machines, like it did yours. At the time I put the problem (red lines) at well under 10% for sure, based on talking to dealers, occasionally checking on the forum threads. When I say well under – I mean it could be 1% or 8% but probably in the middle or lower.

      Bonus feature. If you check the forums you will also see discussions and a whole thread about the Epson lamp life, with early failures like yours.
      What’s fascinating is that I figure a good percentage of the folks that have a problem with a projector (at least one bought online, or at least not from a “local installing dealer”, are probably going to research it online. That means they will find the forums on their first search, such as:
      Epson lamp failure (AVS ranks #2 on google) or Epson 8500UB lamp – AVS comes up first.

      So, I would expect a good percentage of people with failures to end up there. So, they have a page about lamp failures asking people to report. OK, they did it poorly, because there’s no way to tell how big the sample group is, since if you have one, and haven’t blown a lamp, you can’t respond unless you have 3000 hours on it. There needs to be a “I have one, on my first lamp” button as well.
      But the important point is this: there are still only 80 reports. On the largest forum, covering three generations (ok newest generation is only 4 months old).

      Here’s the thing: Epson has probably sold over 10,000 of the combined units, maybe 20,000 or more. I think, though, that the 10,000 number is a reasonable, and probably conservative one, so we’ll go with that. 80 failures out of 10,000, with the projectors having an average life of 16 months in the field, works out to 0.8% failure rate (by their chart) of 2500 hours or less, and roughly 54 failures at 1000 hours or less for 0.54%.

      Considering that a significant number of lamps has always failed early going back to the mid-90′s when I started selling projectors, I think it safe to say there’s no real problem here at all. Even if only 10% of people with lamp failures do a search, find the chart, and add their failure, that would be about 8% of the lamps not making it to 50% of claimed life. Best I can tell, 92% making it to 50% of claimed life, is probably pretty good by industry standards.
      enough – rest easy, enjoy, watch a comedy… -art

  • Matt

    I bought a 6500ub about 1.5 years ago and last October I encountered the red line across the bottom. Epson had excellent customer service and I got a replacement right away. My replacement just started same thing tonight, I think 10% may be a low estimate.

    • http://www.projectorreviews.com/members/lisasonfeier/ Lisa Feierman

      Hi Matt,
      Sorry to here, that, I guess you are now one of the lucky ones… most of the folks who Epson have replaced units for, are saying no problem, but you’re saying your new red line problem didn’t show up until 5-6 months after replacement? Could you estimate for us, how many hours you’ve put on it? Well, no doubt Epson will be happy to shoot you out another one… Interesting correlation… In the last 2 years, I’d say the number of projectors with issues (in review units I’ve seen (either defective – or poor firmware) has gone way up. We’ve seen multiple brands have problems with CFI, with sloppy dynamic irises and just units that aren’t working right (ok, I do get a number of samples…)

      As to 10%… no idea, but the dealers and Epson swear it’s way less. Epson has shipped, in the last 2.5 years roughly since the 6xxx series hit, maybe 25,000 – maybe 50,000 projectors in the series… It’s like the lamp complaints that show up, for Epson, and sometimes over the years for Panasonic, and Optoma (the three big movers of HT projectors…

      When I have a problem (tires getting really noisy on my ’04 G35 Infiniti) I go to the web, and I find answers on forums. Most of us do. If my lamp blew up in a projector at half of its rated life, I’d be certain to search lamp failure XYZ brand model 100 projector (or something like that. IN fact plug in almost any brand name, followed by lamp failure, and you’ll probably find that at least 2 of the first three links are forums.

      So, who knows, but I’ve got about 100,000 different people on my site – each month – who’s only reason for visiting is home theater projectors.. I ask everyone I answer (regarding buying a projector) to provide me their thoughts a few weeks after they are up and running. I get dozens of emails a week from those folks, but – “the lamp, or redline, or whatever the issue, and the projector, I only see huge numbers of people contacting me, when there are huge numbers of failures. (I’ve gotten less lamp failure reports on all brands combined in the last two years, than in a month when BenQ’s PE7700 had a lamp problem. Now BenQ probably only sold 200 – 300 units a month in the US, if that, compared to 110,000 home theater projectors sold in the US in 2010. Now there was a failure rate of 90% percent by less than 50% of hours. I probably heard from 300 people. For the “major” Panasonic and Epson issues, maybe 35 in two years. I’ve had long discussions with several of them, regarding things like lamp failure curves, etc.

      I’ve been getting really defensive – regarding wild numbers I see on the forums about failure issues… I find myself coming to the aid of manufacturers more and more. And as a dealer online for 10 years and probably more than 20,000 projectors, I’ve seen the folks on the forums “mildly exaggerate” many issues to the tune of several magnitudes. I mean people do like to rant – when they are annoyed. (That certainly describes me!). -a

  • http://tinyurl.com/a8thte2 Latarsha Petito

    Yes they will take it back. Tell them why. And no questions ask.