‘Ramblin On’: Thoughts on projectors being reviewed, related products, and tips for users -art

JVC DLA-RS20 - and HD750 Home Theater Projector: First Look!

January 23rd, 2009 Art Feierman
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UPDATE: The JVC DLA-RS20 Review has been posted.

Greetings all!

The first thing I want to say, is that I would have liked to spend a bit more time familiarizing myself with the JVC DLA-RS20 before writing this, but then, this, afterall, is a “first look”.  Please note, the JVC HD750 is essentially the same projector as the RS20, but sold by a different JVC division.  While some specs are a little different, that’s likely just due to the different marketing departments (you know: “Hmm, what number would sound best as a contrast spec”?)

JVC DLA-RS20 projector - great placement flexibilty and image performance

JVC DLA-RS20 projector - great placement flexibilty and image performance

Mike was a little behind the curve getting the JVC RS20 calibrated, so I didn’t get it back until yesterday afternoon.  Not his fault, though.  We both agreed that for the JVC RS20, that CMS (color management system) adjustment was absolutely necessary.  We normally restrict our calibrations to the usual Brightness, Contrast, Saturation, and grayscale balance (and identifying the best gamma settings).  That meant more work for Mike.  When Mike brought it back, I immediately got to play with it in my newly dark painted (dark rust color) theater, with some ambient light coming in.  That was followed by extensive viewing last night.  Extensive, as for much of the time between 7pm and 3:30 in the morning - a long session, for sure. During that time I viewed segments on Blu-ray disc, from The Black Knight, Hanncock, Space Cowboys, Pineapple Express, and Narnia: Prince Caspian.

Let’s start with the basics.  the DLA-RS20 is a little smaller than the older RS2 and RS1 projectors.  It’s got a shiny black piano finish with a little gold trim on the top center and around the lens.  The HD750 is a little different cosmetically.  The RS20 is also quieter than predecessors - claiming only 19db in low power mode.  In full power mode, the JVC seems to be about average, or a little louder than average, but still well below some of the noisier projectors.  The DLA-RS20 claims 50,000:1 contrast (with no dynamic iris!), and 900 lumens.  It has a 2:1 zoom lens, and lots of vertical and horizontal lens shift.  While the RS20 does have internal processing support for an anamorphic lens and sled (and 12 volt trigger), when I last spoke to JVC about this a month or more ago, they didn’t have an anamorphic lens solution, The one they recommend for the older RS2, won’t work physically, because the lens is more recessed on the RS20.  No doubt, a anamorphic lens solution will surface shortly, and I will touch base again, with JVC to see if they have any solution yet.

Several things are new for the RS20, starting with the focus, zoom and lens shift all being motorized.  From an input standpoint, all the jacks are located on the left side (if looking from the back), instead of in the back on those older JVC home theater projectors.

One thing I really like about having everything motorized, is this:  Normally, with a rear shelf mounted projector and a 16:9 screen, when watching a typical 2.35:1 Cinemascope movie, you have letterboxes at the top and the bottom.  With the RS20, I simply brought up the lens shift control, and dropped the image down far enough, so that the bottom of the movie image became aligned with the bottom of the screen surface.  That leaves the letterbox at the top (and above it, more screen not being hit by light from the projector, and the lower letterbox light hitting below the screen.  With the great black levels. the letterbox light is completely invisible on my fairly dark front wall.  This lowers the entire movie image, closer to eye level - a real plus in my opinion, not to mention that one is more likely to notice the lower letterbox on a screen than the upper one.  That is great feature, for those who can take advantage of it.  My only regret, relating to this, is that there is no way to save different lens shift settings.  Now that would be nice.

In fact, what would be even better, is if the projector recognized signal types as some projectors do (like the Epson’s).  With some projectors if you switch from say a 24fps movie source to a 1080i source, the projector will remember, and change preset modes.  This RS20 does not seem to do that, that I have noticed so far.  With my Epson 1080UB, for example, if I switch from my PS3 (with the projector in TheaterBlack1, to my cable box for HDTV sports, the projector would remember and switch to Dynamic mode automatically.  A nice touch.  Oh well. If that’s my biggest complaint, then there’s nothing serious to complain about!

The basics:  when we reviewed the JVC RS2 last year, it exhibited the blackest blacks of any projector we’ve reviewed.  As expected, the RS20 does the same.  It’s been quite some time since I’ve had an RS2 here, but it’s safe to say that the JVC RS20, and therefore also the HD750,  is at least as good as the RS2.  Blacks were very dark, providing those “rich inky blacks” most of us crave.  A quick side by side with the Epson Home Cinema 6500UB (who’s blacks are some of the best out there), shows the RS2 still easily beats the Epson, though not as much as the Epson beats, say the Sony HW10 or Sanyo PLV-Z3000, on very dark scenes.

The RS20 sports a color management system, something lacking in my older RS1.  Good thing, too, as it is needed.  The JVC RS20 is also THX certified, and has a pre-calibrated mode, aptly named THX.  I spent some time viewing in that mode, (it allows only minimal image adjustment (for example brightness, contrast, color saturation, and tint, but no color temperature controls, gain or offset.  And THX does not allow access to the Color Management System (CMS), or gamma.

The THX mode looks very good, but I favor our calibrated Cinema 2 mode, which ended up somewhat similar.

When I first viewed the DLA-RS20, “out of the box”, colors were definitely rich, and pretty accurate, but in general, noticeably oversaturated.  This issue can be helped by simply reducing the Color Saturation control (from a default, I think, of -5, to at least -12, and probably -17 is even better.  The issue, though comes from the individual colors being oversaturated, and that’s where CMS comes in.  The green, for example, is so oversaturated, that Mike ended up adjusting the green saturation to -25 out of a -30 to +30 range.  In other words, almost all the way down.  Without dealing with the over saturation skin tones are over saturated to the point of having an orange, almost day-glow look.

Once calibrated, though (including using the CMS) which I consider necessary, (so far), the RS20 produces a gorgeous image.  The Gotham at night scenes from The Dark Knight (whether the IMAX or standard format scenes) were excellent.  Blacks were as good as I’ve seen on a non-CRT projector, and the bright areas did not appear at all compressed.  One does see a little compression of the brighter white lights in those scenes, when viewing projectors using dynamic irises, such as the PT-AE3000 and the Epson Home Cinema 6500UB.  The end result is that the JVC’s night Gotham scenes have a truer, more dynamic look.

Daylight scenes did a very good job with sunlight, you definitely get the feeling of a “bright sunny day”.

Shadow detail looks very good, but I haven’t had a chance to do side by sides against a couple of other projectors, which will allow me to further clarify how good it handles dark shadow detail.

Next: Brightness - Quite honestly, finding about about brightness is one of the things I have been most interested in.  A year ago, I had considered replacing my JVC RS1 with an RS2, but, alas, the RS2 simply did not have the lumens - the horsepower - to fill my 128 inch diagonal, 16:9 Firehawk G3.  As a result, I have stuck with my RS1.

Lo and behold!  The JVC RS20 is much brighter than the RS2.  with Mike’s new metering equipment and software, which has been turning up much lower numbers than our old Optic One sensor and Avia Pro software.  Despite this, the RS20 measured far more lumens with the new gear, than the older RS2 did with the old.

Most of the preset modes measure between 700 and 850 lumens.  The one exception is Cinema 1 which has a color temp of 5800 for viewing black and white movies.  The rest are all at least 722 lumens (Cinema 2).  THX mode almost matched Dynamic mode (837 vs 844 lumens) within the accuracy of the measuring equipment.

This tells you two things.  The RS20 is about as bright, or actually slightly brighter, than the original RS1, far brighter than the RS2, in best mode.  The other is that, like the other JVC’s it is not significantly brighter in its brightest mode.  By the way, switching from High lamp mode (full power) to Normal (low power), drops brightness by about 1/3.  Also of note, the RS20 has a manual iris, with settings from 0 to -15.  0 being the brightest.  If you don’t need all the lumens (smaller screens, etc.), reducing the iris opening will not only darken the image overall, but technically cause a slight improvement in black levels.

What does all this mean?  The RS20 can handle larger screens in “best” mode, such as my much larger than most folks, 128 inch high contrast gray screen. This really works for me, and many others.  For other viewing, though, with more than minimal ambient light present, the RS20 is still below average in brightness.  I’m a big sports fan, and don’t like watching in a really dark room.  Whether those who also want some ambient light, and have larger screens, your room, screen surface and viewing preferences will be the deciding factors as to whether the RS20 has enough brightness for you, for sports and general programming.  I do believe that my recent paint job to my room, finally darkening dramatically, walls and ceiling, has made a big difference.  I was always a bit unhappy with my RS1, in terms of brightness in my room for sports - adequate but wishing for more.

This is important - the darkening of my room, makes a huge difference in the daytime.  The darker walls reduce the ambient light leaking in from my closed shades, and bouncing off light walls and ceiling.  That makes the ambient light issue a much, much smaller issue.  To get the room ambient where I like it, (not to dark) for sports, it is now under my control, by adjusting room lighting upward.  End result, I put on about 15 minutes of a saved football game, yesterday afternoon (first item when the projector came back), and was happier with the RS20, than I have been with the RS1, with the old white walls.  Hopefully that’s useful info for those who still have light colored walls (and can do something about them).

Back to the matter at hand, which is:  So, what do I think?

Like the guy who fell off the top of the Empire State Building was heard yelling, all the way down:  ”so far, so good.  So far… so good… So far…”

I have much more viewing to do, but as of right now, I’m most pleased. Sufficiently so, that I figure the probability of replacing my RS1, with the RS20 in the next month or so, to be extremely likely.  I love the black level performance.  The colors and color saturation, post calibration are gorgeous, etc.  Of course everything’s not perfect.  I’m not thrilled with the remote control.  It’s range is limited, and that can be annoying, as well as the action of pressing on some of the buttons.  And of course I wish it had a lot more lumens in its brightest mode.  On the plus side, not already mentioned, I like the gamma presets, and the ability to customize your own, including different gamma characteristics for each of the primary colors, which can be saved into any of the three Custom gamma modes (in addition to the provided Normal, A, B, and C gammas.

Assuming no real issues pop up during further, more critical viewing and in doing my side-by-side comparisons, the JVC RS20 looks to be one outstanding projector.  The price point is high compared to most of the other projectors we review, but, so far, I am pretty sure, for those that can afford one, that they will consider it worth the extra money!

I’m hoping to publish the full review Monday night (which probably means Tuesday night).  I should be able to also post the RS10 review 3-4 days later, as some of the work with that one will be going on concurrently.

OK, that’s it for now.  Go easy on the questions, as the less time I spend speculating on what I don’t yet know, the sooner I will have the real answers and the sooner the review will be published.

Hang in there! -art

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18 Responses to “JVC DLA-RS20 - and HD750 Home Theater Projector: First Look!”

  1. What do you think about optoma hd8200?
    How would you describe rs20/rs10 picture compared to benq w20000, sharp z20000,infocus in83 ?

    *********************
    Hi Matt,

    I don’t have any opinion yet about the HD8200. I’m waiting for one. Optoma had told me two weeks after CES, but nothing yet. I haven’t checked because I’m busy with the RS20 and RS10. If it makes it in the next week or so, I can still include it into my big comparison report, which I’ll start in a week. If not, I won’t get to it, until late February.

    As to the others, look for that in the competition section of the review of the RS20, and on the weekend, the RS10 review. -art

  2. Art - you can improve the issue with the remote control by removing the thin plastic on the front and read IR sensors on the pj. They are practically invisible, but if you scratch lightly they’ll come off.

    Also I highly recommend reading the AVS forum RS20 calibration thread. A ton of tips and tricks are in there that will give you a good head start on getting the most out of the calibration and CMS. Speaking of which for the best quality picture I recommend a custom user mode along with custom CMS. Again see the calibration thread for ready-to-use settings.

    Enjoy the pj!

    **********************
    Hi Rik,

    Thanks! I had the remote removed, but never saw them on the pj. That really did help. It’s still not great, but it no longer sucks. I’m not thrilled with the action on the buttons, especially the arrow keys. Not the best remote around, for sure. However, I figure I’m buying an RS20, and it’s time to go universal remote. Mike does remote programming and setup, it’s time I put him to work. -art

  3. Re: Non-Standard 128″ 16:9 Firehawk Screen Size?
    I have a 123″ 16:9 Firehawk and was figuring how much brighter images would appear on my smaller screen. Stewart’s table of dimensions does not list your size for 16:9 screens. Is 128″ correct ?

    ****************

    Hi Jim,

    Hmm, you are the first to ask in all these years. Yes, it’s a 128″. Stewart offers custom sizes, they just bill for the next larger size (133″ I think). I also have a longer than usual 18 inch drop at the top. (the only drawback to custom sizes with Stewart, is they take a little longer to get). -art

  4. Steve Atkinson Says:
    January 27th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    Art,

    You mention that the RS20 cannot memorize zoom and focus settings (ala AE3000). What projectors other than the Panasonic do allow you to save multiple zoom and focus settings?

    thanks,

    steve

    ********************
    Hi Steve!
    Only the Panny memorizes the lens settings to my knowledge. Mitsubishi will probably copy Panasonic in their next generation, since they already have motorized zoom and focus. (With no motorized focus, there is likely to have some de-focusing after a lot of zooming in and out, so that would make this concept impractical. Sanyo and Epson are manual. Perhaps some of the forthcoming DLP’s will have it. Optoma and BenQ are moving to longer range zooms, that, curiously, have just enough zoom range (1.5:1), to make such a scheme work. There might be some higher end projectors that do, but I can’t think of any. Those Runco, SIM2, Marantz, etc. type of lines want to sell anamorphic lenses and figure their customers can afford them, so I doubt it. -art
    -art

  5. Steve Atkinson Says:
    January 27th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    Ps.

    I sure hope Optoma gets you and HD8200 before the big 1080p review… the pickings in the DLP world have been pretty slim for the last year or so…. especially thanks to InFocus’s choice of throw and offset.

    *******************

    Steve, I’m told it was going to be shipped out today. -art

  6. Mark Willard Says:
    January 27th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

    Art,

    Thank you so much for the service you provide to the a/v community by reviewing all these projectors! I’m curious about the noise of the RS20. I know that as you said, the RS20 should definitely be quieter than its predecessors; however, I’m wondering how it might compare to 3LCD projectors like the Epson 6500UB. If you go by claimed noise levels, the Epson should be much louder; however, it seems strange to me the LoCS could be that much quieter than a 3LCD. Is this the case in your experience? Thanks!

    *****************************
    WE ARE!!!
    PENN STATE!!!

    Hi Mark,

    The RS20 is definitely quieter than the 6500UB, it’s quieter when comparing low lamp modes, and when comparing high lamp modes. It’s not drastically quieter though in high lamp. Low lamp should not be an issue for either projector.

    First the lightpath is entirely different for an LCoS, as it is reflective technology (like DLP in that regard), not transmissive (light passing through). This is also why you can have a sealed light path with an LCoS projector, but not a traditional LCD.

    Next, the Epson 6500UB is the noisiest of the 3LCD projectors in its class. the Mitsubishi Panasonic and Sanyo’s are all quieter, and most of their combined 5 models are noticeably quieter than the JVC.

    I really can’t explain why Epson’s tend to be the noisiest of the 1080p 3LCD projectors by a significant margin. I do believe, for example, that the Mits HC6500 and HC7000 are quieter in high power lamp, than the Epson is in low.

    So, to a large degree it comes down to the design. Epson pushes more lumens out of their design than any of the other 3LCD 1080p projectors, and they use a custom designed lamp (they call it TORL). Lots of factors. -art

  7. Your comment about using an anamorphic lens is misleading. I had assumed you
    meant Panamprph but I see that JVC recommends more than one make of lens and Panamorph has assured me that there is no problem using the UH-480 with this PJ. You should be more specific or risk turning people off this PJ for no good reason.
    ********************************
    Hi! Not intended to confuse. Just a hard time getting a straight answer out of JVC. Still waiting. It was JVC who told me at EHX in November, that their RS2 solution wouldn’t work, and they didn’t know for sure if there would be a working one by the time it shipped.

    I’m just playing catch-up on these comments, but I emailed JVC again, earlier today. I don’t like leaving a question like that open for long.

    Unfortunately I don’t have the time to check with all the anamorphic lens companies, and I’d hate to point someone to a lens sled combination that has issues. Let’s face it the projector just started shipping. How many anamorphic installations can really be actually installed by now. Im sure a decent number have been sold, but a lot of those folks are doing rooms, and it takes a month or more to go from first shipment to fully operational setups, for most folks. -art

  8. Hi Art,
    As ever, great review of the RS20. I’ve just purchased an RS10 (well, actually, a HD350), and I am too looking to calibrate the unit myself. Tonight, I will try the settings for Cinema2 in your review (obviously not the CMS settings). To see how that looks. But, I would really appreciate it if you could calibrate your RS10 when you get round to it and post the settings in your review. I’m projecting onto an 84″ matte white screen at 4 metres. Currently using aperature setting 1 on the RS10 (most closed). Agreed, black level is amazing, but also suffering with oversaturation. It would help me a a lot if you can give us your calibration figures to give me a good starting point.

    Thanks again.
    Darren

    *****************************
    Hi Darren,

    Sorry, I’m playing catchup - first time in the comments in a week.

    I just posted the RS10 review. All of our settings are in there. Please let me know what you think.
    Damn good on this projector! -art

  9. Hi Art,

    Two questions:

    1. I heard some negative comments about blur on these LCoS machines…but not in your reviews. Can I assume that its a non-issue in your opinion for rs1, rs2, rs20, etc?

    2. How do I get a bid in on your RS1 once you decide to let it go?

    ***********************

    Hi Mike,

    First, regarding motion blur. I thought I mentioned this in one of the reviews or perhaps a blog about frame interpolation. Can’t hurt to repeat.
    First there seem to be two motion blur issues. One relates to blurring of fast moving objects in particular, that type of problem is being address (with limited success so far, by creative frame interpolation on a handful of projectors (Epson, Sanyo, Panasonic…)

    There is another type that seems to affect different people differently, much as the rainbow effect does. That one has something to do with the individual’s retina and it’s movement, etc. The article I found, which I unfortunately lost track of was of a medical nature, and definitely over my head in some regards.

    This is the type, is the one (I believe) that tends to draw remarks like “I just can’t stand to watch it.” Much as with some people the DLP color wheel/rainbow effect gives them headaches, almost immediately. (I had someone working for me a couple years back, who couldn’t stand to watch DLP projectors, even for 15 minutes with video sources. She’d go running from the room.)

    So, the bottom line seems to be that something about LCoS panel design that has it come up as a type that probably is more conducive to this other motion blur aspect. LCD projectors are also more frequently cited. We know that the persistence? times of LCD and LCoS projectors are longer than DLP, and that’s why most of those folks seem to like DLP?

    That’s a lot of conjecture. Best I can do! -art

  10. Do you know any details about the upcoming Benq projectors? Are they going to be coming in June or later? How are they going to be priced, any performance specs ?
    I was almost set on getting the Optoma hd8200 as my new pj, but then I found out about the offset with a very small lens shift, and I just can’t make that projector work in my setup, so now I’m hoping for another DLP that can compare in performance and price.

    **********************
    Hi Matt, when I spoke to BenQ at CES, June sounded like about as soon as we can expect them. I have almost no details but will be talking to them about it next week. I’ve got the Optoma HD8200 coming in, and like the BenQ, I believe it has a 1.5:1 zoom and lens shift. Perhaps finally the DLP folks are realizing that the limited placement flexibility is killing their sales. (In fairness BenQ at least has had lens shift, but still, very limited zoom range.) -art

  11. Hello,

    Just installed a DLARS20 JVC. Cannot get the Vertical lens shift to move. The Horizontal works. I hope it is something simple that I am not doing.
    Thanks for any help you may have

    ************************

    Hi Mike,

    I think I may have an answer for you. If you push the lens shift to the maximum (be it vertical, horizontal, or a combination, when one gets stuck, try moving the the other back towards the center point, just a very little bit. That should free up the stuck one. It only seems to happen when you are using all available, but it has done that to me on both the RS10 and RS20. Doing as I suggest, seems to free it up every time, making it a “no problem”, just a few extra seconds of your life, shot to hell. -art

  12. Have you compared this to the Sony VPL-VW70? I’m considering both (and the VPL-VW80, from a foreign source).

    Thanks.

    ************************
    Hi Robert,

    No, not yet. I have spoken with Sony, and will probably have the VW70 arriving early March - Sony is one of the more “unpredictable” companies when it comes to firm dates, at least in my experience. They tend to favor print magazines. It should be interesting though, when it arrives. I suspect that the JVC will still have the advantage in black levels and brightness, but, I never know until I am working with them. -art

  13. Would the RS20 benefit an any way from a DVDO Edge processor? I read a review of it on this site by someone with , I believe, an RS1.

    I’m mainly interested in issues other than color, since mine is calabrated. Does this do anything to improve on either the motion blur, upscaling, or frame interpolation? Although I find none of thesee currently a problem, after spending for the RS20, the Edge seems a small cost if its worth it.
    *****************

    Hi Jeff, Mike Rollett, who does all my calibrating of projectors (doing it myself got old, and he’s faster, and better at it), wrote the review of the DVDO Edge for our site. He, like I, owns an RS1.

    I will ask him, and post on his thoughts. As you probably know, the RS1 has extremely limited image controls, a far cry from the RS20. That said, I’m not an “outboard processor” guy. I really have rarely used one, and Mike is more into that stuff, so I’ll check! -art

  14. Hello,

    Your fix on the Lens Shift for the DLARS 20 was Right On. It is unstuck and working, THANKS for the Info.

    Mike

  15. Greg Obrigavtich Says:
    March 9th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Hello

    I’m looking at getting an RS10 in the near future. Currently my receiver (Pioneer vsx-74) does not pass 1080p. I’m wondering how good the JVC’s are with a 1080i feed. Can they extract the native 24p out of the 1080i and display a judder free image. If I won’t notice a difference in picture quality or only a minor difference I’ll likely just keep the Pioneer. If it will be a significant difference I’ll either get a DVDO Edge or swap the reciever for something else.

    Thank you

    *******************************
    Greetings Greg,

    I believe the answer is no. I’ve never tried feeding my Blu-ray as 1080i, so I can’t confirm regarding that. For 1080i from HDTV, well, I rarely watch a movie over HDTV, but, if I had to guess, I would say “no, it would not strip the material back to 24fps”, and in that case, you would have standard 3:2 pull-down, and the associated judder. While getting a DVDO edge would solve that problem, it probably will not improve your viewing from Blu-ray. The Silicon Optics Reon VX processing in the JVC, is extremely good, and probably the equal (and maybe better) than much of the DVDO’s processing, even though the DVDO Edge has some extras, which might be of interest.

    My take on it, would be, if anything, to replace the receiver. If it is only supporting 1080i, then it is also probably only supporting HDMI 1.2 or earlier? (My 3+ year old Marantz THX certified receiver, for example, does support 1080p, although not the new Dolby and DTS schemes.) If so, you inherently have a receiver that won’t be able to support Deep Color when content starts hitting (one of these days, hopefully). If that’s the case, then your current receiver probably doesn’t support the newest Dolby and DTS processing such as Dolby True-HD and DTS-HD.

    Remember, there’s some guesswork in my answer. Best of luck. -art

  16. Hey Art-
    I’m new to the site, and am awaiting for the arrival of my RS20. I’m particularly interested in your settings, which if I understand correctly, will be listed with the review of the RS10. I just can’t seem to find it. Can you please point me in the right direction.

    Thanx

    ****************************
    Hi Rick,

    Hmm, you simply overlooked it. Go to the RS20 review, and select the Calibration listing on the review outline, near the top of the each page of the review. You will see Calibration as the 5th item down. It’s all there! -art

  17. Yes Art I had missed it! Thanx for pointing me in a direction that my 2 year old could have found

    Thanx

  18. Hey Art, thanks again for all the input. I was curious as to what JVC has since said about what is the best fitting anamorphic lens since you published your review? Are people able to use an ISCO or Schneider or are folks steering more towards something like a Panamorph? Thanks again.

    -Nate

    *****************

    Hi Nate, Actually I updated the JVC reviews recently (I think I did both). Anyway, JVC sells their anamorphic solution using the Panamorph lens. It works with the RS10/20/HD350/750, as well as the older ones. Their original (Schneider optics) only works with the older JVC’s. From what JVC tells me, it’s the “standard” Panamorph lens, but the mounting plates are custom for the JVC, as opposed to the “universal” plates that you would get buying from Panamorph. Not much of a difference, but, it should make setting it up a little simpler (a lot less holes in the plates - just the ones you need). -art

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